Independence-day Saints
By Michael H. O’Donnell
When I first moved into a neighborhood in Pocatello three decades ago, the first thing that struck me as odd was the “Mormon check” that took place.
It came disguised as a paper plate loaded with cookies.
Holding that plate was an older woman with a pleasant, inquisitive smile.
She said she had noticed we were new to the home on the corner of the block, a mere stone’s throw from the Portneuf River. Her probe came early in the exchange of pleasantries.
“What ward are you from?” she asked.
Of course the only ward that seemed familiar to me was Montgomery Ward, but I doubted she was interested in my shopping habits. My puzzled look probably sparked a note of realization inside of her, but she persevered.
“Are you LDS?” she asked.
She left the cookies – along with a tinge of disappointment – as she exited my rental house and retreated down the sidewalk to her nearby home. It wasn’t the first time my ignorance would reveal itself among a culture flavored heavily by Mormonism.
After securing my first job in the Gate City I was having a conversation with a group of other young men about college, careers and catching the wind into the future. One of them mentioned that a longtime friend was going on a mission.
“What branch of the service?” I asked.
The guys at the table looked at each other with a shared look of puzzlement and laughed. They assessed the situation and informed me it was a church mission. Another elder had decided to share the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints with the rest of the world.
Now I had two more terms to add to my understanding of the local religious culture — ward and mission. I had already learned that stake centers had nothing to do with medium rare sirloins. Relief Societies did not deal with headaches and being sealed was not a reference to safe packaging.
It took a few more years before I realized “Jack” was not a nickname for the guy who drank beer on the golf course on Sunday instead of spending half the day inside a ward.
Another surprise was a summer event that took place in late July — Pioneer Day. At first I assumed July 24 was a strategic date in the formation of Pocatello, having something to do with the railroad driving its first spike or some forefather of the frontier building a shack north of the Portneuf Gap.
“It’s a Mormon thing,” a longtime gentile of the area told me.
After I purchased a home in the old Alameda section of town and received another Mormon check, I witnessed first-hand the festivities that surrounded a memorable Mormon day in the 19th century when Brigham Young and a band of followers first set foot in the Salt Lake basin.
The city park located a few blocks away became a mecca of merriment. Softball games, booths and food filled the space with a throng of people. The intersection of Jefferson and East Poplar became a logjam for one day each summer. Times change and the quaint park with limited parking was swapped out for larger digs.
Now it appears leaders in the local LDS Church are going to swap dates. Members of their faith who want to participate in a parade this July will join forces with the community-wide July Fourth festivities. The news has generated mixed reviews.
Among them is the cry that July 4 is all about patriotism and independence, not the arrival of Latter-day Saints in the West. There have been expressed fears that the “Mormons are going to take over” a celebration of national pride.
“Them” and “us” are at odds once again.
Those are the labels that distinguish the people who are just like you and those who are not. Race, politics, incomes and even occupations tend to pin people to these two general categories – them or us.
There is no denying suspicion festers in both camps, Mormons and non-Mormons. Members tend to be close-knit and have strong allegiance to leadership in Salt Lake City. Unlike other faiths who declare themselves Christians, the LDS have their own books. And it’s an American-born religion.
The product of Catholicism, I’m not free to lecture anyone about strange rules and odd beliefs. As George Carlin once said after the Catholic Church changed its mind about the sinful nature of eating a hamburger on Friday, “I’ll bet there are still guys in hell doing time on a meat rap.”
Faith is tricky business.
But maybe we need a little faith in the notion that Mormons and others in Pocatello and Chubbuck can celebrate July Fourth together — as Americans.
Michael H. O’Donnell is the assistant managing editor of the Idaho State Journal.
Another piece of crap written by O’Donnell. I lived in Pocatello for almost 30 years and was never even once been ask what my religion was. It is a little sad to see people like you that work for the local newspaper and use it as a bully pulpit.
This combined holiday is going to be a like a small town Saturday night high school dance. Little movement from each others side of the gym and hardly any dancing… one side going home way too early.
pisajoe – It must have been lonely for you.
The LDS people can celebrate the 4th of July all they want, side by side with anyone but what is so damned hard to understand about the fact that the 4th of July is not a celebration to the LDS religion.
To many of us the LDS religious teaching are repulsive and offensive, to many of us the religion is based in hate. Mormon exceptionlism has no place along side with patriotism on the 4th of July.
Yes Michael, I have also gotten the Mormon check gifts from every new neighbor who moves to the neighborhood, seeing if I was one of them. Always got a invitation to the ward and a expressed reason for the need that I should. Most didn’t even know their own history.
If you people ever visit a LDS chapel on sunday be sure to lock your doors, the vegetables left on the seats are hard to clean off if you are as dense as it seems and sit/talk before checking anything.
Ray.M,
What is so darned hard to understand is where you get your wild ideas from in the first place. If you move in somewhere no one is supposed to come and greet you, ever? I’m with MikeMathews, it must be lonely for you. Being a good neighbor is a bad thing in you and O’Donnells world? You’d love NYC, over a million people who walk by each other every day and seldom look or talk to each other. If you greet someone you’re automatically an outsider in their world and they go after you the wrong way. Been there plenty times over the years. Herd instinct well imbued. Head down, charge. No, 17 oz. sodas either.
Ten Commandments are repulsive and offensive? That come from you, a guy with a broken zipper? Hate is the only religion you know. Quick throw the first anti-mo pamphlet you pick up as evidence of your bigotry.
No man knows our history and you never will, not even the lady who wrote those words. Just know the anti-mo pamphlets you collect as if they’re the last word on any subject. You would have died on the great plains from being ornery. You’d have argued with the black faced welcome wagon mobs that came to kill you. And they didn’t have any plate of cookies either, just lead?
Now, please refer to the 26 volume en-treatise for accepted scripture ONLY YOUR SIDE USES. But never refer to things like #44 that decreed the right of a governor of a state to exterminate an entire people, just ignore things like that. Now there was an exceptionlism piece. Whatever that word might mean. Word check has never heard of it.
Now, call me a racist, republican, etc. Par for the route you’re taking on this one.
LDS people have always celebrated the 4th of July but with the bigots gathering like flies and maggots on here, they might have ruined it for everyone including themselves. Turned it into a day of mourning at best.
You are what you appear to be and that’s not good. You resist the urge to come together, act human and show a single characteristic of that trait called christian. You flunked recess long time ago. It’s your way or the highway type of mentality.
Poor baby, you take point. I’d never trust you behind me. It takes someone 100% behind you to stab you in the back. You’d be good at that.
Put a sign on your front door, “every 3rd mormon, shot, hung and garroted and the 2nd one just left”.
Never consider joining the LDS church, you’d be too hard to explain your bad habits. We have enough invented problems as it is.
Try moving to East Austin Texas, no mormons there for good reason. And your neighbors come in hoodies with guns and no cookies to welcome you, sucka.
Your fault you got me started.
I’m with DR. It is time the LDS Church shook off the cloak of being a backward degenerate
trodd on persecuted race of second class citizens. They should stand up and walk side by side down the streets of America just like
anybody else. After all this is a free country.
And yes the people in the East have a different
sense of decor. They go by the proposition that first of all a man has a right to privacy.
Not in places like Pocatello where everybody minds everybodies business but there own.
And what you find people do it Pocatello is stop and stare. They just stare at people. Stare or glare, in the stores or otherwise. They have no sense of decorum.
Hasn’t your mother ever told you it is not polite to stare at people. Gook and stare
Pocatello square.
I’ll take the East any day.
Now don’t get me wrong. I do love the West.
There are just some places better than others.
In myt mind the closest place to heaven on earth for really wonderful friendly people
is Laramie, Wyoming.
Ranger,
Been to Laramie Wyoming. Good place. Like here better though. Not in the cities, however.
Thanks, I think, not sure what you said was about especially the ‘trodd’ business but…..
People in Pocatello stare? No, they walk head up and politely greet others. I know, bad in your world. Staring takes practice and only you have time for it.
You’d think a plate of cookies was a Mormon pamphlet of the worst kind. Down here it’s tomatoes and other vegetables left on your car seat on Sunday. Uh, dude, those 100 plants I planted, we’ve got more than we can ever use so I left some in everyone’s car. Some people’s garden math is a mess. Tomatoes are a tad messy if you sit first.
People in the east do have it different, especially in the BIG CITIES. Now out in the countryside is entirely different. Love the Amish people and people in Appalachia. People in Maine are a tad offish, like their cousins down in Massachusetts. Oh, don’t try to get in the bay out on Cape Cod, there is no way to do it. Property lines, you understand. Snobs only live in Martha’s Vineyard. Just look from the road that dead ends and you come back the same way you left.
This issue has an under current in one particular thing, hatred or intolerance of a particular religion. I find any hatred towards any people or their religion offensive and repulsive.
BearLaker
I think you are really stupid. Nobody has said one word about hatred or intolerance. You just read it that way because that is how a narrow idiot mind such as yours operates.
And now we are supposed to think you are high minded. No what it really shows is your inability to think in sociological or theological terms. Do you even have any inkling of what the topic of conversation is?
Try July 4th and July 24th ring a bell?
Ranger,
You must admit the discussion turned into just what he commented about.
Here’s the first thought into the fray that ensued.
“To many of us the LDS religious teaching are repulsive and offensive, to many of us the religion is based in hate. Mormon exceptionlism has no place along side with patriotism on the 4th of July.”
Oooh, that really solved a lot and put us on the path to not being divisive? You didn’t hop on his back for saying the same thing, did you, ie. “replusive and offensive”. You didn’t tell the commenter he was ‘stupid’ did you?
BearLaker is welcome to his opinion and he’s not stupid but your remark was stupid in and of itself.
I get on here and you go the Texas queer steer route in a heartbeat. No, he has a good point and you verified it.
I’d never accuse you of thinking in theological terms ever.
Given what Mr. O’Donnell wrote, what is the topic that he wanted to get over and didn’t? Most definitely wasn’t about the 4/24th thing but yes that small remark was buried in there.
Go back read it again and tell me where it went. Honestly, it wasn’t a romp through Camelot.
Anything on here can be turned into an anti-mo screed in a heartbeat.
I don’t know why I didn’t think about this before. I guess it’s because I’m getting old, and forget sometimes. But all this talk about these individuals not wanting any Mormons in the July 4th parade, is in fact a moot point.
I mentioned before I was born and raised in Pocatello, Idaho, and have seen most of the parades here, and even been in a couple of them. Now that I think about it, so have several Mormons I know. So for all of you ‘dictators’ that say the Mormons have no right marching in a parade with other Americans (OMG – that is so silly), you are just too late. They have been doing it since the parades first started here. The first parade I was in was when I was about 11 or 12, and I got to ride on a beautiful Palomino horse that belonged to a neighbor of ours. He had four of them. Three of his kids rode on the other ones. They were close to my age. He also had some other horses that were ridden by him and his wife. Oh yeah – did I happen to mention, his whole family was very devout members of the L.D.S. Church. They rode in the Independence Day Parades all the time, and even in other parades here. Homecoming Parades, Pioneer Day parades, and any others that happened. And guess what – nobody suffered one little tiny bit. I also know that some of my Mormon relatives have allowed their children to ride their bikes in a few parades here.
Face it people. Lot’s of Mormons are in these parades, and you don’t even know who they are. Maybe that’s because they are having fun like everyone else and not handing out ‘pamphlets’ like you are accusing them of. And like it or not, they are Americans and have the same rights as everyone else to celebrate our country’s Independence
And NO – before you start, I am not a Mormon.
In reflection of a community with such a heavy LDS influence, it’s easy to come up with a boogie man when one doesn’t exist.
There are bloggers here and now that prove that point well enough.
Skezix, I cannot appreciate your comments enough.
On a comment forum for the Washington Post, an article announcing the abdication of the Pope has released an avalanche of mean spirited sneers towards Benedict, Catholics, and religion in general. It’s so bad that one could walk away feeling as if religion is the most vile of all ideological plagues on the planet, and being a devouted follower to such is akin to unadulterated Nazis-ism.
Whew! People really need to take deep breaths.
Traveler,
You don’t to be Mormon, you’re still my brother and that counts for more. I admire my brother. Still waiting for the pomegranate drink, however.
I too appreciate your comments.
DR,
The best thing that the LDS community can do to combat this perspective is to look for oppurtunities to move their families out of the geographical Zion-central and integrate themselves with everyone else. The purpose of gathering in a singular geographical location once served an important purpose is no longer valid.
The LDS people do a whole lot better when they are in the minority anyways. Now that I’ve just become a new resident of Virginia, I actually feel so much better.
ike,
“geographical Zion-central? I presume that might refer to Salt Lake City.
We started back in Vermont, New York, Ohio, Illinois, Missouri and kept moving West until we finally found a place bereft of anti-mos and settled down. We get accused of saying Independence Missouri was Zion and there are those who thought it was. They were wrong. Zion is a term meaning wherever the ‘pure in heart dwell’ and that isn’t only referring to the LDS people. If it’s a geographical location, there are a bunch. We believe certain places are important in the latter days but since we’re not there yet, why get people speculating about that. No, no parades that I’m aware of.
During the early days of the church a huge disparate group of people joined the church and expected the church to join them in their various backgrounds and beliefs. It was hard for awhile until we finally got out of that bad habit. If you want to read some of the widely different things that some believed there is a 26 volumes set of their writings and they varied widely. It’s not official scripture but we get it quoted to us all the time as if it is.
We even investigated coming to Texas early on but decided not to. However, Lyman Wight came down to Texas to check it out and stayed and you can check his exploits here out. There are several towns he founded and left here. When I moved here in 1972 I found people who claimed to be 5th generation LDS who had never been baptized or had ever attended church. It was Lymans group most of the time. Not recognizable as LDS but claiming to be LDS by descendancy, however that works.
There is a group called FLDS that have never been members and they have an enclave called YFZ (yearning for zion) in Eldorado TX. The state asked us to intervene for the state and we said we had no connection with them. The FLDS went off the deep end several years ago. But still they connect us with them. Their prophet is in state prison here and will be there for quite awhile, convicted pedophile at best.
It wasn’t so much as a central gathering place as a place where we could find peace and worship God accordingly. Seems we seldom got the chance as the rumor mongers and black faced mobs got there ahead of us. 25 years after they ‘exterminated’ us in Missouri we came back to the place unannounced. Took until about 1976 before they finally got rid of the extermination order however.
We live lots of places but yes, SLC and Utah are known for their ‘concentration’ of LDS. 24% in Idaho. Rough guess of 40% in Utah. We’re 296,00 per wikipedia down here in a population of over 28 million. Rough 1%.
Actually we do better when we’re in a majority as we tend to stand up for everyone but when we’re a minority we get walked all over. People believe rumor and innuendo before anything. At one time we were the largest city in Illinois.
Do we do things wrong, yes. We’re still not perfect, even yet. Apparently someone accepted an invitation to combine the parades on the 4th and 24th and that’s a NO-NO up that way. We’ve been in parades down here but I doubt anyone would recognize us as such. Not worth the hassle it engenders in those that take social umbrage at things like that.
I’m up here in the hills, there are 3 lds families that I’m aware of in about 10,000 people. They know who we are because we decline Shiner Bock (which is an insult to Texans). Got a guy down the road here who refuses a dinner invitation because I might discuss something religious or whatever. Everybody else enjoyed the BBQ and we talked about the weather instead.
Enjoy Virginia, haven’t been there in a long time. Glad you feel better there. You need some place to call home.
The news people speculate that the next Pope is coming, “Out of Africa.” Really seems that
would be most appropriate. The Catholic Church in America is on a down hill slide.
All the priests and nuns are coming here from some part of the third world. None come from here, unless it be from a rich upper middle class neighborhood like Evanston in Chicago that the kids go to Fenwick High School.
But the Catholic Church in the West struggles.
A Black Pope!!!!!—could be a very good thing for the Third World. Maybe Obama knows of a candidate!!!!!!!
Dr
Don’t be trying to come off like your some kind of angel. You get rather mean spirited yourself.
I an not denying anybody their rights. It just reminded me of times people want to totally discount the subject of evolution
because it is contrary to their religious beliefs. Well that is fine. But it is a school of thought, and many people take it seriously. So to discount it because it is not in line with religious beliefs is an injustice social and otherwise.
I have no need or desire to celebrate any religion on the 4th of July, most of all when some one such as Disgusted Reader is a spot light example of hate and racial beliefs of the religion.
Americans have First Amendment Rights so we don’t have to respect any religion on the 4th of July , even more so of a racist religion.
Ray.M,
It’s PIONEER DAY, we celebrate the pioneers. Are you really that dense?
The hate and racial beliefs are in your head and your only. I pulled up your posts for my black brother down the road here and he sat and shook his head in disbelief.
You’re hopeless and getting worse.
Ranger,
Chapter & Verse?
Guilty to baiting and being sarcastic. Not an angel, never ever claimed to be one. Only you do. Yes, if you reply that way then it’s only fair I can too.
I do bite back when provoked. No chapter on verse on that except maybe “an eye for an eye” type of thing.
Thanks Ike & DR for your comments. I too, enjoy yours.
I have discovered, however, in recent years that it’s very difficult to speak to a large group of people these days and not offend someone.
And people walk away with their feelings on their shoulders waiting for you to say something, ah, did you hear that? The pc police are out in force at all times. I remember once I was talking about the difference between a human brain and a dog’s grain, and a man got offended. You can’t talk about dogs like that.
People focus in on that, completely miss the point of what you’re saying. And we’ve reached reach the point where people are afraid to actually talk about what they want to say because somebody might be offended. People are afraid to say Merry Christmas at Christmas time. Doesn’t matter whether the person you’re talking to is Jewish or, you know, whether they’re any religion. That’s a salutation, a greeting of goodwill. We’ve got to get over this sensitivity. You know, and it keeps people from saying what they really believe.
Dr. Benjamin Carson at the National Prayer Breakfast.
DR,
Geographical Zion-central applies to any area where the LDS population has a predominate, if not indirect, influence.
I am fully aware of Zion’s more intrinsic definition, and the LDS have nothing to fear in stepping out and meeting the world head on. I am confident that all of us (LDS and gentile alike) would be better off if when we blend and dispel the non-existent boogie man that people like Ranger feed on so fiercely.
I would like to re-post my comments from Mr. Archuleta’s column. There really is no need to have conflict in this parade. Instead of finding things to disagree on, let’s look for commonalities and areas of agreement!
“Has anyone asked the Elks Lodge what they want the rules for the Independence Day Parade to be? Perhaps it would be better if the Lodge simply limit the number of entrees that will be allowed from each group or organization to one. For example, one entry from the American Legion, one from the Marine Corps League, one from the VFW, (or any other VSO) one from the LDS Church, one from the LC-MS Church, one from the Methodist Church, one from Calvary Chapel, (or any other church) one from the Boy Scouts (though they could have all packs represented), one from the DAR, one from the Democrats, one from the Republicans and so on. This way, no one would feel excluded, slighted, or overwhelmed.
By limiting the entrees to only one per group, there should be no misunderstanding about the purpose of the parade (celebrating the 4 of July, Independence Day), and the sponsorship of the parade (The Elks Lodge). In a time when we are all wanting to be closer as a community, the last thing we need is creating division where there should be none.
It is my belief that our friends in the LDS Church had simply not quite thought through how canceling their Pioneer Days and shifting their activities to the 4th of July Independence Day Parade would appear to the community at large. I believe that upon further reflection, our friends will see how it could be viewed by others not of their faith and self-limit their footprint at the Nationally celebrated Independence Day Parade.
God bless you! And, God bless America!”
Again, God bless you!!!!
ike,
My last manager asked why I didn’t drink when everyone went out on various things. I told her and then gave her a copy of the relevant writings plus a list of things I was allergic to and put her in charge of keeping me out of mischief and trouble. She did a very good job. And no one argued with her choices, not even me, she was good.
It’s kind of hard to blend in, dude. They always ask why we don’t go along with a lot of social customs and what do you tell them? Got a lot of good friends from those who asked why over the years.
Outside of the estimated 62% in all of Utah, excluding the SLC area, the church is in a minority in places. There are more members outside of the U.S. than there are inside the U.S. Wild guess in Pocatello might put them in the 20%+ category there.
Patriot,
I’m not aware of the 24th being cancelled. Correct me if I’m wrong. Reading the story on here we apparently were asked to join the 4th celebration, the 24th will still be celebrated. It’s bigger than just Pocatello. We celebrate it down here but no parade outside of the church parking lots. Given the brouhaha it generated I suspect the LDS in Pocatello won’t consider an invitation in the near future, just not worth the bigots coming out of the woodwork. I imagine they’re beyond tired of the lies being published. And, no, I don’t speak for them. We’ll honor the pioneers separately for all they did for us down here on the 24th. We’ll blend in on the 4th like we always have.
Why only name calling and insults that go nowhere? God forbid the bigots might learn they’re totally off base.
DR:
As you and I, and a whole lot of other folks know, the reason the troll/clones come on here and type the things they do, is like little ‘tantrum-throwing’ kids. They are just lonesome for attention, and the only way anyone does pay attention to them is when they make total arses of themselves. They choose the subjects they do because it’s all they know (or think they know). I believe they keep a dictionary handy and every now and then look up a big word and put it in their post so that we will think they actually have some intelligence. Of course, we know they don’t because of the simple fact they never put anything intelligent on here. If we were to just completely ignore them for about a week, they would come back on here with yet, another name, and just start over. But then, it wouldn’t take long to get back to the same rhetoric as now. Name calling and false accusations is all they really know.
I think their biggest idiocy is calling us all racists, when it is an absolute fact that they are the worst racists that have ever posted on here. And yet, they continue to spew their hatred and racism with almost every post. Sad bunch!
DR,
My efforts to be a person of meaning was always so much easier outside an LDS community than inside. The quality of the average everyday Mormon is also noticeably much better.
I suggested to this my mother some time ago, and she looked at me somewhat offended that I would actually want to leave the state and raise my kids where they are in the minority. I love my mom, but this attitude is the very crux of the problem.
ike,
Sometime you’ll have to explain to me what you mean by your efforts to “be a person of meaning”. Not sure I follow what that means or entails, sir.
The quality is better because we go through hell fire and damnation on a regular basis here and not so much so back in the NE.
Oh, the stories my sons could tell you growing up here. We heard some doozies over the years.
And yes, there is a difference between the people in Idaho and here but in my case it has nothing particular to do with only one religion as it came from all sides.
One of my best friends is in Poky and he fills my email inbox with encouraging writings, isn’t LDS and I’ve bluntly told him how much I appreciate him over the years.
Do I get the impression you knew all the wrong ones? Would that include me?
ike,
I recently was in the hospital and I asked the Methodist volunteer lady if she would give me a blessing, which she did. She asked me what religion I was and was surprised I asked her to do it. We had an interesting conversation and I thanked her for her blessing. I’ve given my neighbors blessing here when the catholic priest was unable to get to them, so it goes both ways.
Got to know the good catholic father when several of the foster children in our homes said they were catholic and I took them to mass and found out they weren’t. Big surprise? For the children it was. Never baptized a single one LDS, we were parents first and foremost. Religion was secondary. Had one of them pull ‘street smarts’ on me on day and I gave her back to CPS as a result. She still refers to me as grandpa, it was a rude wake up call for her but a good one. She was Hispanic by the way, the people I’m always accused to hating by the bigots on here.
D.R. I am always ready for a blessing! May I give you one now? “May the LORD bless you and keep you. May the LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you. May the LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.” Numbers 6:24 Amen!
We say this every Sunday in our church and at the end, we say, “And the people took the blessing and held in their hearts.”
Patriot,
Thank you sir. The same back at you.
I’ve attended a huge number and variety of churches over the years. The Quakers were different, it reminded me of a travel report of where they had been during the week, still good people. I wasn’t sure they would be interested in all the ‘computer trouble’ calls I had made during the week, so I just listened.
Good people are where you find them.
If you only knew some of the Mormon history, you would also know they have all kinds’ of veterans past and Present.
One of the hand cart groups coming west was told to go help the United States fight in the war against French/Mexico. Left their wife’s and children to finish pulling the carts west to a better home where they would not be persecuted for there faith.
So you have the men helping the United States in a war (Veterans) and the families left to fight the mobs and Indians on their trek west!!!!!!
Oops! delete French from above Renecks comment!
Seams there was a another country helping Mexico but with out researching it I am not sure who it was?