Teachers could and should be armed to protect students
By Cal Edwards
There is no easy cure for violent acts in our society when there are so many needed answers to solve the problems, but a reality check for our society is that law enforcement cannot prevent these violent events from happening. Another reality check is that firearms will not be removed from our society any time soon. When you have a firearm and force being used on our children in schools, it is generally going to take force to stop it.
Any time you have a school shooting it would be better to have one person present in one minute to stop the assault than a SWAT team to stop the assault in a half-hour. Even an officer that is only five minutes away will be too late to save many lives. Many of our educators and politicians are anti-gun. They advocate that no guns should be on a campus or school grounds. They even post signs stating, “This is a gun-free school zone.”
This is like telling a criminal this is a fertile environment for them to prey. We should be putting signs up that state: “Faculty and staff armed to protect students.”
There are always new discussions and laws enacted about gun control with new victims. The new laws are not any more effective at protecting us from these events than a restraining or protective order protects the victim of domestic violence. They are just pieces of paper designed to make us feel better. It is feel-good legislation and meaningless to those who don’t abide by the laws and don’t play by the rules.
When someone stops breathing or their heart stops, you only have a few minutes to save a life and if CPR is not started within a few minutes, no amount of advance care later is going to do any good. If someone is to live or die, it is not the ambulance personnel that will save them, it is the bystanders that know how to give CPR until help arrives.
Time is the biggest problem to saving a life in a cardiac or pulmonary arrest and time is the biggest problem to saving the lives of our children when you have an active shooter in a school. If there is to be an effective response to an armed suspect in a school, it must come from a person already on site when the shooter arrives. Police officers today are very well trained to handle active school shooters, but an active shooter can do a lot of damage before law enforcement can mobilize to stop the threat.
Faculty and staff could and should be armed to protect students and children. Many areas around the country have legislated faculty and staff to be able to carry firearms on campus and school grounds. Not all educators would want to be armed. But some do want to be and they should be allowed to be armed if they have the training.
In addition to having a concealed handgun course, they should have training that goes well beyond a typical concealment course and have a stringent background check. They should have a requirement to have regular shooting qualifications and training. This is easily done by law enforcement and qualified firearms instructors.
The teachers and staff are the real first responders to stop an active shooter in a school. Police departments and schools do not have the manpower or budget to put armed officers in every school. Waiting for the police to respond is reactive and teaching students how to hide and play dead is an unfortunate reality. We have given our teachers the responsibility to educate our children and we expect our children to be safe in their care.
According to the Force Science Institute, which tracks mass murder data, public schools, preschool through 12th grade, are targeted 38 percent of the time, colleges/universities 17 percent and church/religious facilities 10 percent. Intervention to stop the killing happens about half of the time. Of the times when intervention occurs to stop the killing, two-thirds of the time it is stopped by unarmed civilians, and only one-third of the time by law enforcement.
Mass murders are at a record high in our society today. If our educators were armed with training, we could prevent a lot of needless killing. An armed citizen on site, at the time of a shooting, could prevent a lot of unnecessary deaths. The liberal educators or politicians that don’t want guns on a campus or schools are either of the false mindset that the police will protect them or they assume that nothing will ever happen in their area. They are in the denial mode, which is the most dangerous of all. When it does happen, these politicians and educators will advocate that it was not their fault that intervention did not occur sooner.
Cal Edwards is Inkom’s police chief and he served as a police officer in Twin Falls for about eight years and was the coordinator of the Idaho State Police academy for about seven years. He is currently the coordinator of the law enforcement program at Idaho State University, a master firearms instructor for the state of Idaho, a past paramedic and formerly served as the coroner for Twin Falls County.
Cal,
Well written article. It is refreshing to see this common sense attitude coming from a law enforcement officer.
While living in Texas, I was certified by the Texas DPS as a Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor. I concur with your comments that the training required by teachers who choose to carry at school should go beyond the typical CCW course.
I hope the school board as well as state and local leaders will read and consider your proposal on this issue.
How many Concealed Weapons permit holders stopped the Shooting at Columbine, North Hollywood, Aurora, Virginia Tech, and New Town?
Zero – None – Nada – Zip
The North Hollywood shootout with over 1100 rounds fired by two Robbers against 400 police who fired 600 rounds in 40 minutes, no one, even those with high powered rifles at a gun shop made any effort to stop the shooting. Like everyone else, they were in hiding.
Arming Teachers is Irresponsible, they are not trained and increases the Risk of our Children being harmed by firearms.
We need to Re-think our Gun possession laws, period and get the arms out of the reach of those who should not possess them with restrictions on who has access. The mother of the killer of Sandy Hook made a huge error in having weapons when her sun had anger management issues and lost her life along with 20 six year olds. We might not be able to prevent all, but it will at least, be a different approach than the NRA’s “Everyone one in schools should be “packing heat” to sell guns. In action is not an option and arming teachers in grade schools is Stupid.
Arming Teachers, having guns in the hands of a teacher whose job is to focus on the development of the children we entrust them with is NOT the answer.
Law Enforcemnt knows that or at least should.
Anyone that thinks otherwise, should not be in law enforcment.
I agree with Smokey and Mr. Edwards.
Mike, per present CHL rules, Columbine is a school and is a “gun free” zone. That didn’t stop the murderous thugs did it? Zip, nada, zilch and nope. So post more signs and write more laws that the criminals ignore and trust me, that’s IRRESPONSIBLE. Do anything but increase the odds of survival. Force begets force, always has.
I agree people need to be trained and I also agree that anyone who carries must be willing to use the gun or it will be taken from them and used to kill them. Just putting a gun in your possession is only half of the story. You also generally get a very short period of time to decide which it’s going to be.
You admit the mother of the killer in Sandy Hook made a huge error and then with a straight face you say we should get the arms out of the reach of those who should not possess them? Give them to Eric Holder who will give them to the drug cartels and how many many thousands have died from that piece of stupidity? Your approach is wishful thinking at best, totally non-helpful at worst. The very people that should be protecting us aren’t, they’re called politicians and they think we serve them any more.
Being able to defend yourself from a murderous thug is not in the curriculum of any school nor on the marque of any theater and never will be. Criminally murderous thugs go where the innocents are and you guarantee them a field day before they take the cowards way out most of the time, as of late.
You should never be in law enforcement, you’d argue and go down in the first volley. You take point. If I’m ever involved in a do or die situation with you, I will use you as my shield. How do you like that? Here, go argue with the lead coming our way.
Doing nothing but argue and write Executive Orders to be ignored is the height of irresponsible. But that’s the way we’re going, isn’t it? Make ordinary citizens criminals for the crime of defending themselves from criminals? So, then with a straight face you can say you got the guns out of the hands of criminals you invented? Indeed, the CDC should do a study of the disease you carry around with you.
Campus Gun Bans
State law does not ban concealed-carry on campus unless it is an athletic event, in fact Title 21 of Wyoming state statutes and the Wyoming Constitution limit education administrators from making any such ban.
Wyoming Statute 6-8-104 (t) “No permit issued pursuant to this section or any permit issued from any other state shall authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm into- Any college or university facility without the written consent of the security service of the college or university”
Also prohibited 6-8-104(vi) Any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms.
What we see here is that the University of Wyoming faculty does not recognize a Universityy campus as the appropriate place for guns, despite what the gun advocates want
nee or or feel they deserve..
Yes Wyoming is a State that has defied the federal laws against gun bans. But in there one home in their own state where their children go to school, common sense tells them that a college campus is no place for guns.
And why is that so? What are their reasons
for banning guns at the University of Wyoming.
One is the proneness for accidents. Loose guns go off, and kill people. Everyone is still numb when a police gun went off in a New York High School, in the holster of the cop, and richceted down the hall way. How does a gun just go off? It is still under investigation.
And the second a very obvious answer in the high rate of suicide among Wyoming University students. Suicide is indeed a problem here but also among college students across the nation. Guns make it more accessable for students to whack themselves after a lost love affair or just a bad lunch in the dorm.
Now let’s just reduce that to the schools. A teacher is going to be quite effective guarding his ngun all day long from the crazy kids who might waant to steal it..
The real violence in schools is not from outside forces coming into the schools. it is within the schools. H.S. kids at least some factions are reckless and violent by nature. To bring guns into their midst would only exacerbate the problems. In a sense in role models and justifies violence.
A role model that role models violence whether by guns or knives is a negative role model.
People who advocate the use of guns should not be allowed in the schools at all. Nor should they be allowed any access to the kids. We do not need violent minded people influenceing a generation.
If parents want to degenerate their children with a gun culture, let them do it out in the hills where they belong, not in civilized society.
How can I diplomatically break this to you Ron? We don’t live in Wyoming. You must have gotten into the Cheeze Wiz a little too heavily.
This was a column from a chief of Police in Idaho about his concerns for school safety in Idaho.
When you sober up, check it out. Inkom and Pocatello are in Idaho.
You should have known that since you have an ISU e-mail address.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/05/17198217-wyoming-teens-accused-in-triple-murder-denied-bail?lite
They didn’t get the memo? Didn’t learn a thing in school did they? Age 18 and 19 respectively. Yes, definitely in the hills as such. I suspect they learned what they did in schools of the disreputable type.
Although I did attend Kindergarten, I more remember my 1st grade teacher. She was one who always treated each child in our class very special. After I left grade school, many years later, in my late 20′s, I attended a school function for one of my younger family members. This teacher I had in the 1st grade was there, and she came right up to me and said ‘hello’. She actually remembered me, which surprised me to no end. But, my point being, was I could not in my wildest imagination see this sweet lady packing a gun. If any teachers today are anything like her, forget the “pistol-packin’-mama”!
This is really a hard question considering what is happening today in our schools. I wish I had some answers, but guards and total lock-down while in session, and more guards to see the children safely home is about all I can come up with. Before you get all het up, I know that isn’t feasible. But like I said, I don’t have any answers. I truly wish someone did.
Traveler,
I didn’t attend kindergarten, I was busy with my job of opening and changing irrigation sluice gates for people. Couldn’t do that today could I? There was no kindergarten that I recall. No one went.
I also remember my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th grade teacher, who was the same person. Each year she cried as a whole row of students graduated upstairs. 6 rows, 6 grades in one room with one teacher. Estimated 30 students if memory serves me and everyone avoided the dune chair and cap religiously. It sat empty most of the time.
She wasn’t a pistol packing mama either, didn’t need to be, anyone who would have gone after her would have had to gone through us all collectively, we were rather protective of her. And yes, there weren’t the problem people in society that we have today roaming the streets and not in mental hospitals like Blackfoot South where they were then.
The children’s children of the drug culture of the 60s and such are now ours to deal with in public spaces since the ACLU & liberal judges says we can’t confine them.
Indeed, times have changed and so what do we do? Can’t ignore it, have to do something but I suspect that some of the answers being offered are anything but answers. Wish we both had some better answers. Some people never change for the better any more.
dune=dunce
Cal. Edwards , Inkom Police Chief and Smokey.
Lets say you get your way and the state trains School teachers to have concealed weapons on them in the Schools and a madman again goes on a shooting rampage in a local school. In Pocatello or Inkom.
You two police officers and others go charging in and a shoot out is in full swing with dying children everywhere.
WHO , who are you going to shoot and kill first ? WHO is the real madman shooter ?
How many children are dead because a teacher missed the real shooter , how many times ????
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I am sorry , arming teachers is nothing but flat our stupid. Students , one way or another will get a gun from a teacher , by trickery or by force. God help our children then.
Who do the Police shoot and kill then ??
Putting trained police officers in schools is one thing, but arming teachers is asking for another school shooting and flat out stupid.
Ray,
Give the police some credit. The person who shoots at them when they enter the school is the madman. The person who is shooting at the person who is shooting at them is the teacher.
Simple enough that even a gunowner control nut like you can understand.
Ray,
First of all Cal is a real police officer. I was a volunteer patrolman, mostly on weekends, while we were living in Texas and I was on the faculty at Texas A&M University.
I also was certified by the Texas Department of Public Safety (State Police) as a Texas Concealed Handgun Instuctor, and taught that course through the office of continueing Education at Texas A&M University.
Before leaving Texas for Pocatello, I wrote to the Pocatello Police Chief to see if the pocatello, Police Department had a Volunteer/Reserve Police program. They don’t, so I am now a citzen who tries to support law enforcement by staying out of trouble and not scaring anybody.
I don’t know whether Cal reads the blogs, so I will try to address your concerns, but you ought to contact him and get his input.
Since I have some experience training both law enforcement and private citizens to use firearms in the gravest extreme against other people, I can tell you it is a subject not to be taken lightly.
First let me quote the standard that all of us so trained, live by:
“The only justification for using deadly force against another human being is an overwhelming need to stop that person from what they are doing, or are about to do. The need to stop them must be so great that it does not matter if they die as a result of being stopped.”
I’m sure Chief Edwards would quote something similar.
The training a police officer goes through and his/her subsequent training under a department certified training officer is designed to make sure that each officer is as knowlegeable and competent as they can be made to be.
Chief Edwards knows that the cost of putting a police officer in every school is prohibitive, even if the school district can be counted on to pay part of those officer’s salaries.
He also knows that there are willing teachers and private citizens who make up a vast resource for putting highly trained and armed people in the schools at no extra cost to either the police department or the school district.
Right now he seems to be focusing on those teachers in each school who are willing to go through the training. It makes a lot of sense to start with the teachers themselves and see who would be willing to undergo the training.
The teachers are already there and could respond immediatly instead of waiting for the police to arrive.
The teachers are also known and trusted by the students. In a crisis situation having someone known and trusted immediately available with the training and tools needed to difuse the situation and protect the innocent is invaluable.
Not all the required training involves firearms and marksmanship. Non-violent dispute resolution is also part of the program as are strategies to recognize possible problems and get the police on their way before the individual/individuals enter the building. Control of the area immediatley around the school buildings is also a priority.
That is why Chief Edwards said that the training would have to be more extensive than a typical concealed weapons course.
The kind of trained invidual that I envision and I’m positive Chief Edwards envisions will not be a threat to the safety of the children, nor will there be any confusion on the part of the police or the trained teachers as to who the good guys are. They will already know each other very well.
Don,
You continue to amaze me with your way with words.
You must have studied at the Academy of Winning Friends and Influencing People.
Let me understand the situation being discussed.
A mentally unstable person wishes to enter a school and kill people. This person knows that there may be teachers with guns. Although mentally ill, history has shown that they know how to prepare for conflict.
Given the above, Cal’s proposal does not seem to prepare teachers well enough for this conflict.
Teachers need grenades and bazookas in order to have sufficient fire power to repel these assaults. Don’t sent them to a gun fight with a knife. Armored personnel carriers for each classroom would also go far. The buses should also be upgraded or replaced with tanks.
Jack,
How much training does it take to stand between the children and a madman? Today the teachers stand in that exact spot defenseless and are among the first to die.
Why not let them at least have a chance of saving some of the children?
The teachers don’t have to be organized into SWAT teams, clearing classrooms and sweeping the building looking for the madman. They only have to provide defense for the children in their classroom.
There’s no reason the teachers can’t be trained enough. POST standards can be set for school teachers who want the training. POST training already is provided for police officers, prison guards, felony probation agents, juvenile detention officers, reserve officers, etc. Each of those categories get training specific to their job. Those teachers who want to get the training can be supervised by the school resource officers after training.
Don:
Is there some reason a taser or other non-lethal method can’t be sufficient?
Putting more killing machines in the schools seems to increase the risks.
Where will the money come from for all this training? School budgets are usually under a lot of financial stress. The amazing part is how people are willing to spend more on this stuff and not books or teachers.
Jack Wolfe,
People high on drugs ignore tasers until finally they die before being stopped. Several examples of just that down here. A bullet stops with more finality. One side practicing non-lethal and the other side practicing massacring and that’s equal?
No money for defense but money for what? Training costs $40 down here. Last I looked an average textbook cost well over $120 each and per the pundits is out of date once a year. Math & History change every time the budget comes up.
Either spend it on defense or on caskets for the same people. Your choice.
Jack,
The answer to you question is yes.
Tasers and other non-lethal weapons are an option that has allowed police to effectively control people who simply aren’t going to cooperate with them without seriously injuring anyone.
However tasers don’t always work as planned. Sometimes it takes several seconds before they actually incapacitate the suspect and if you will remember , Rodney King just pulled the taser prongs out every time the police shot him with them.
Edwards is point on, when he says that anytime someone with a gun is threatening leathal force, it is going to take lethal force to stop them. The intent is to stop the aggressive action rather than kill, but force sufficient to kill has to be used to stop lethal force.
I can understand your discomfort with the use of lethal force, but I also understand that when someone decides to attack children in school or folks at church with lethal force, they need to be at risk of having that same level of force used against them.
It is not a pleasant subject to discuss, but the gravest extreme requires an extreme response.
Jack,
Smokey gives a pretty good explanation of why tasers are of no use for stopping lethal threats.
Money does not have to come from the schools. Teachers can pay for their own training if they want it. Also, the NRA Foundation provides grants for training. A program like this would probably be a good candidate for a grant.
Don,
You might be interested to know that at least one of the premeire firams training academys, Front Sight, who trains military, police and law abiding citizens, has offered to train teachers free of charge if they apply on School district letterhead, with the Superintendent indicating that they are going to be carrying at school.
I’m guessing that Chief Edwards feels that he and other police instructors locally are in a good position to train the teachers.
Based on his experience and Master Firearms Instructor certification from the State of Idaho I would think he would be an excellent resource in desining and teaching the course he envisions for teachers.
Tasers are of no use for stopping lethal threats ??
Who here has been hit with a x26p taser shooting out 50.000 volts ? The x26p taser stops all voluntary muscle activity instantly .
So some think the police departments can provide proper training of real life and death situations for teachers to respond to. ?? You mean police officer like the 2 LA policemen who shot two tinny women, one in the head the other in the back. Mistaking them for a 275 pound African American man who was a ex-police officer.
I don’t think so, arming teachers is nothing but a blood bath waiting to happen.
Ray,
We all know you identify with the criminal element. You have even said so in a previous post.
You would have us just stand and watch your friends slaughter people if that is what they want to do.
You need to get your head out of your, “you know what”, because we are tired of the carnage, and it is going to stop.
You guys made your choice to be violent offenders. Criticizing the consquences of your actions will get you right back where you belong.
Smokey , DR, et. al.:
I have no problem killing those who try to kill me.
I do wonder if armed teachers can be relied upon to respond to the threat or if it is just increasing the risk of more death. It take a real commitment to take the life of another.
If you think they can be trained then let’s arm them effectively, as stated in my original post. Forget handguns and give them weapons superior to what the drugged up attackers may have. This may also be a great recruitment tool to get the kind of teachers we want to protect our little darlings. Perhaps a lot of our returning soldiers could be enticed to take another tour in the school war zone.
As I said before, the training includes more than just proficiency with firearms. The law considers all human life sacred, even the lives of those who would put the rest of us in jeopardy.
If it can be done without placing the innocent at risk, efforts to resolve the situation peacefully should be employed uintil the police arrive and take control. I would think that should be part of the training also.
I think we would want people who have no desire to harm anyone,but will respond quickly to the force that is being used or is about to be used.
In other words if you have no problem killing those who would kill you, you may want to think that through a little bit. However,if what you mean is that you can quickly use lethal force to stop lethal force from being used against you or others even though you will be bothered by having been forced to make that decision afterwards, that is a normal and acceptable attitude.
Jack Wolfe,
Weapons superior? So, you’re recommending all teachers have tanks? I can just see that line item fitting in the budget.
Nothing in the hand is definitely not working at present. I don’t care if the other guy has a 150 bullet magazine, if I have nothing to send back his way, I’ll send you the bill for the ensuing funerals. Give me a ‘good’ handgun to at least send a ‘hint’ back their way. I can hit what I aim at and the first round goes into exposed flesh, not bulletproof vests and such.
CHL is the way to go, so the crminals/perps never know where the response will come from. And don’t give it to people who dither as it will just be taken from them and they die a few seconds later.
Someone needs to respond and right now, it’s the ‘after the fact’ police and they come and count the bodies and the perp commits suicide before they get there. Present way is not working and the ‘solutions’ being forced on us will only make things worse.
Mather.
Your idiocy stands supreme.
The discussion was about arming school teachers idiot. But if you insist with your hate here , so be it.
So according to your idiocy anyone in America who is not part of one of your your extremist militia movements, should be in prison ?? Shocker , like that has not been made explicitly clear before by the Tea Party klansmen .
Keep hearing about this criminal element, from extremist like you Dave Mather, tell us, just who is the so called criminals that are slaughtering your people ?? Do you mean the white shooters who committed the mass killings across America ??
You damn right I identify with people in America with past felony convictions, they are United States Citizens with Constitutional Rights. Rights that are being abused and infringed upon by people like you.
According to the Bureau of Justice people of color make up only 30 percent of American population BUT account for almost 70 percent of those imprisoned.
One in 3 people of color, according to the Bureau of Justice will see prison. 4 times more likely to have a gun pulled on them by the police.
Black and Hispanic students are more than 70 percent more likely to be profiled , searched , and arrested in school related enforcements.
According to The Human Rights Watch , people of color are NO , I said NO more likely to use or sell drugs BUT with the War On Drugs , Blacks and Hispanics are 50 percent more likely to be arrested and prosecuted than whites.
11 States are denying the right to vote to people with past felony convictions, denying a voice and a right to vote to over 10 percent of the total Black and Hispanic citizenry of America.
WHO ARE THE CRIMINALS ?? .
I very well understand the criminal element here and your plans.
Your White Conservative Militia extremist in America want to disenfranchise people of color, their Constitutional rights , voting rights and use past felony convictions to make sure they can not arm themselves legally, and in doing so white conservative militia gun nuts like you can kill as many as wished with out any reprisals. It has been made very clear here before what your plans are .
Think again idiot. You arm your militias with assault weapons and they will do the same , legal or not. Your Militia extremist are calling for a war, you damn well will get one.
Ray,
You’re certatainly a long winded little felon when start spittin garbage.
Look, the bottom line is that if you can’t follow society’s laws, then you will be put you where you can’t bother the law abiding. It is that simple.
I realize that many simple concepts escape you, so here is the deal. You stop thinking of the law abiding as “White Bread”. and conform to society’s rules and no one will bother you. If you choose to endanger society you will end up where you belong.
Ray,
You say “You damn right I identify with people in America with past felony convictions, they are United States Citizens with Constitutional Rights. Rights that are being abused and infringed upon by people like you.”
Will you lead the charge for their right to keep and bear AR-15s?
I’m glad you’ve finally seen the light. Help us to ensure that no Americans are denied civil rights protected by the Constitution.
It is so sad that every subject that is posted on here, no matter what it is, Ray turns it ‘racial’. What I don’t understand is why, when someone commits a crime and is convicted of that crime (NOW I DIDN’T SAY ‘ACCUSED’, I SAID CONVICTED), then they forfeit a lot of their rights. And for your information Ray, it doesn’t matter one iota what their race is. I don’t care if they are white, black. green or purple w/yellow stripes. You commit a crime, you pay for it. You do have the constitutional right to a fair and speedy trial, but if you are convicted, and sentenced to serve time, then your ‘rights’ become what you are allowed as prisoners.
You seem to have this mind set about you that every ‘white’ person in this world has only one agenda, and that is to hate and repress anyone of color. What planet are you from? I mean really! Well, here is something you probably don’t know, or at least never thought about it: Every living person on this planet (with the possible exception of Albinos) have color to their skin. Some may be lighter skinned than others, but we all have color. Most people, and you can ask any artist, have shades that start with a very pale pink or tan, all the way to the ebony black.
The way I see it, our Supreme Creator (or God if you prefer), had a flair for color. If you don’t believe that, open your eyes, and look anywhere on this planet, or even into outer space through a telescope. Colors abound, and they are glorious. That includes the human race, animals, landscapes, etc. So all the ‘whites’ you constantly refer to aren’t really ‘white’ at all!
Traveler,
I think Ray and I got off on the wrong foot when I tried to honor him by naming one of my new Walker Hound puppies, “Deaf Ray”, after him.
one of my children, who raises the same breed of hunting hounds suggested that Ray probably was dissapointed because the name wasn’t more highfalootin, and suggested that I should have named the puppy, “Raylonious-felonious-pupponious.” However, I “like Deaf Ray”, better. Although these hounds don’t respond to anyone once they are on a scent, can you imagine the look on the other hunters faces if I told a “Raylonious-felonious-Pupponius”, to break off or come back.
Cute Dave!
But just for the record, the odds are infinitesimally high that ‘Ray’ is even It’s real name. One of the troll/clones was outed a while back, and there were over 25 names attributed to one person. Didn’t see a ‘Ray’ listed, but that doesn’t mean he/she/it wasn’t included under some other name. Just the way ‘it’ posts on here puts ‘it’ in the same category as the rest of them.
Travelor,
I realized that when he first started posting, but I really like the name, “Deaf Ray,” for the puppy. It fits his personality when he alerts on anything.
I like unigue names for the dogs. That is why I named the Ridge Back,”Entomologist”. It just seemed to fit him. We have a “Wrong Way Corigan”, also. He can pick up a scent really well, but he can’t figure out which way the critter was going.
It is fun to name your pets different names. We acquired a dog once from a guy that bred and trained ‘hunting dogs’. The pup had accidently been grazed by a bullet, and from that day forward, even the click of a gun set him running for cover. The dog my Mom had recently died, and this guy brought her this pup (obviously no good for hunting any more), a beautiful Black Lab, less than a year old. He had a stack of Pedigree papers with five names in the line, and she called him one of the names. Sorry, I can’t reveal it. Too much info. But I’m with you on dogs. You seem to use them for hunting; we just had them as pets and/or guards.
A girl was visiting her blonde friend, who had acquired two new dogs, and asked her what their names were. The blonde responded by saying that one was named Rolex and one was named Timex. Her friend said, ‘Whoever heard of someone naming dogs like that?’
‘HELLLOOOOOOO……,’ answered the blond. ‘They’re watch dogs!’
Present dog thinks his name is “good dog”, why should I spoil that idea?
Dave Mater.
Conform to the white Society’s rules ? Do you mean denying a voice and voting rights to over 10 percent of the Black and Hispanic citizens of America ??
Once they serve their time and gold sealed they are United States Citizens again . Yes we know, with your extremist views , you don’t see it that way.
YOU are the danger to society with your WHITE extremist beliefs.
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Don.
NO I will not , NO privet citizen has a legal right a a AR-15 , including you. You are not a member of a WELL REGULATED STATE MILITIA. key word , REGULATED.
You damned right I will lead the charge, the charge to keep United States Citizens from being slaughtered and exterminated by the likes of you with your assault weapons.
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Traveler.
Not every white person fool. Only the white extremist such as yourselves here.
You racist clowns have made it abundantly clear over the years what your Aryan views are and your feeling are towards Blacks , Hispanics and the Native peoples .
After seeing so many of your racist Tea Party rallies across the Nation and one here in Pocatello , sporting Aryan Nazi signs and flags, it is very well understood what your intentions are and will be for anyone who does not fit your racial profile.
Your intentions are slaughter and exterminatons, the soul purpose behind your insane demand for assault weapons.
Right here in Idaho a extremist militia movement is calling for a race war to segregate Idaho races.
Yes Traveler, your extremist intentions are very well understood , just as you clowns have been preparing , so have they, legal or not.
Ray,
Did you know that Gabby Giffords husband by your definition wants to slaughter and exterminate Americans?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/09/Gabby-Giffords-Husband-Buys-AR-15-Announces-He-s-Not-Keeping-It-After-News-Leaks-Out
Are you just like him? Publicly leading the charge for gunowner control but slinking into gun stores to buy military style guns?
Maybe that’s why sales of AR15s have exploded. Gunowner control nuts like you and Giffords are emptying the shelfs.
Ray, many of the law abiding citizens you fear and are absolutely paranoid about are Blacks,Hispanics and Native peoples.
Maybe you should learn to call them by their names like the rest of us do, instead of by their color or race, and pretending to represent them.
You aren’t fooling anyone.
Good answer Dave. You can see that no matter what anyone has to say, Ray has ‘it’s’ mind set that each of us is one thing or the other, as long as it’s the ‘whites’ against the ‘colors’! Truth is, the poor brainless little idiot doesn’t know what any of us really think or feel. I come from a very big family. Just in this area alone, there are more than 100 people I am related to, and that many more in other towns and/or states. And these are close relatives. There are members of most races in our modern family, and I care for each and every one of them, and all races in the ancestry of our family. One I’m free to mention was Cassie Jo Stoddart. She was one of the closer relatives. Beautiful young lady, and half Mexican.
Now, according to the mouth called Ray.M, I couldn’t possibly have loved and respected her because of her Mexican ‘color’. That in itself should give you an idea just how idiotic ‘it’ is. Ray.M cannot truthfully say what any of us think, so “it” just makes up stuff.
Kind of like throwing spaghetti against the wall and trying to make it stick. Try it sometime! Pretty hard to do. Makes a helluva mess though, just like he/she/it(known as Ray.M)!
“conform to society’s rules and no one will bother you.”
“Conform to the white Society’s rules ?” quote Ray.M
Only bigots change words to make it fit their bigotry. The conversation started with YOU and no one else.
Got 4 Hispanic grandchildren, explain them away, dork.
I’m with Traveler, you’re the loser and getting worse at it.
Oh, google Dave Mather for a start to see who you’re dealing with. He didn’t back down.
Sat inside an amusement venue yesterday. 5 young ladies checking people in, one was black the others were white. When a black family came in they went to the black cashier every single time. When there was a problem they returned to any white cashier but no bias, right? Huge number signed in two ways. White Lone Star EBT card or one of multiple max’ed out credit cards. You couldn’t miss it. Which society rule were they following? Never saw a single white person offers an EBT card, a few Hispanics did. EBT? Welfare credit card buys amusement parks tickets here. Which society rule says that’s OK? Only one very distinct society yesterday but strictly an analomy, right?
Ray,
Are these people the ones you are talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9RABZq5IoaQ#!
Nothing like seeing the local klansmen banding together , almost looks like a local tea party rally here. Hold on you are the local tea party klan, in all it’s racist Nazi glory.
Noticed not one of you idiots refuted my statements that you and your extremist militia movements has plans to exterminate all people of color in America . Not one of you, you and your assault weapons.
I cannot believe how totally obsessed this troll/clone is. According to ‘it’, we “all” have ‘…plans to exterminate all people of color in America’. What is really your problem Ray.M? Didn’t you once say on here that you are ‘white’? Were you lying? And if not, then you have to be one of the ‘whites’ that are going after all the ‘people of color’.
OMG! Have you been planning this all along, and trying to put the blame on the rest of us so you think you can get away with it? Shame on you! You two-faced pathetic loser. Well – we are onto your game now. Watch out all you folks of ‘color’ out there. Ray.M is out to ‘git ya’!
Ray,
Well, the game is up. You finally figured out that we aren’t clever enough to refute the rantings of a lunatic.
Please don’t go away. We need the entertainment for the next meeting.
Guess what Traveler , yes I am white, BUT I am not a lunatic gun nut that runs around thinking Obama is coming to take my guns away.
I am not a member of a so called militia movement because my skin color is white.
I am not a White Extremist who thinks the Government is going to take my Constitutional Rights away.
I am not a White Tea Party member who believes President Obama is not a United States Citizen or has a fake Social Security Number.
I am not a White Supremacist who hates the President Of the United States simply because he is a African American man.
My religion does not believe people of color can only be servants to white men as so many here believe.
If you think being a white person and standing up for the Constitutional rights of the people I grew up with is Two Faced , then so be it.
If you think being a white person and calling out a poster for his racist claims that my President is not a US Citizen or is using a fake Social Security number is Two Faced , then so be it.
It just show what you are.
Don.
If you think I am a lunatic for feeling you are willing or planing to commit murder with your assault weapons, so be it.
Assault weapons only have one purpose, to kill people . You are so staunchly demanding that you have a right to own a assault weapons, to me that means you have plans to use it.
To me you are the very same kind of person who slaughtered the children at Sandy Hook , you have more love for your gun than a human life.
You call yourself a militia member but not part of the State Of Idaho’s National Guard Units .
What militia group is it then Don ? The Pocatello Tea Party Militia or one of the other militia’s that are demanding racial segregation in Idaho or even the one who is a KKK militia that is demanding the extermination of anyone not white in America ?
Your making the claims of being a Militia member , it shows just what you are and what your intentions are.
Ray,
We discussed this at the Aryan Nazi Tea Party Racist gunowner shindig tonight. We’re wondering how you got hold of our secret code book to decipher our messages. You weren’t supposed to know what we really think.
Well-well-well! Looks like Ray.M is at it again. Let’s just analyze this. He/she/it makes these statements about itself:
“…not a member of a so called militia movement…”; Well – guess what – neither am I, YET you are constantly accusing me – and others of being just that!
“…not a White Extremist who thinks the Government is going to take my Constitutional Rights away…”; Well – again – neither am I, YET you see fit to accuse me – and others of being just that!
“…not a White Tea Party member who believes President Obama is not a United States Citizen or has a fake Social Security number…”; Well – I’m not A ‘White’ Tea Party member either, or any other color of Tea Party member, YET – you constantly accuse me and others of being just that! As for the SS#, and the rest, I didn’t make it up. News Reporters, and others did. So send your stupid accusations to them.
“…not a White Supremist who hates the President of the United States simply because he is a [an] African American man…”; Well – once again, you are wrong about the whole thing. First of all, I don’t hate Obama. I just think he is a lousy President. (There have been other Presidents I felt the same way about; didn’t hate them either). His ‘color’ has nothing to do with it. Second of all, why do you constantly refer to him as an African American man? IF – as you claim, he was born in the United States of America, then why don’t you call him an American? Unless he is a full African, he should not even be referred to as such. You always seem to forget that he is as much ‘white’ as he is ‘black’. Why don’t you refer to him as a ‘White American’? It would make just as much sense.
And this one is classic: “…’my’ religion(??) does not believe people of color can only be servants to white men…”; Well – neither does mine; at least the one I was baptized into as a baby. But truthfully, I just don’t believe in religion such as it is. And I doubt that any true religion in America believes in slavery either. But with your mind set, we all know which ‘religion’ you are referring to when you make that stupid statement. You’ve spouted it off too many times on here.
You can go back through most of the posts you put on here, and they are riddled with your version of other races. As Dave noted in one of his posts, you never refer to these folks as Hispanics, Native American, Africans, Asians, etc. To you, they are all just “people of color”! Ever notice that you are the only one that calls them that? YET – you constantly blame all the rest of us of doing what you are the ONLY ONE doing.
Well – here’s a clue bub! I can’t speak for the others, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I don’t think anything like you do. I care for people for who they are as people, not where they come from, or what ‘color’ their skin is.
Ray,
The only reason we think you are a lunatic is because you act like one.
You think you speak for people who don’t claim you, and your reasoning is laughable.
Even my puppy Deaf Ray knows which way to go once he gets a scent, and Wrong Way corrigan will change direction once we whistle at him and point the other way, while entomoligist prefers to just lay down so he won’t get into trouble by making a stupid decision.
You could learn a lot from those dogs.